THE REST OF THE STORY…
I’m a firm believer that reasonable people can engage in reasonable discussions. That view might seen polyanish to some, but it’s too easy to assume anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. And it isnt’ very helpful in the long run.
So back on Tuesday, 22 August, I sent the following email to Perry Eidelbus:
Shalom Perry,
I’m one third of the blogging troika at The Writing On The Wal and I’m curious. Do you think there is a middle ground between our two positions on which we could hold a reasonable discussion on how Wal Mart affects our economy and national policies?
B’shalom,
Jeff Hess
This afternoon I got this reply:
Jeff,
Ask yourself why boys aren’t half-circumcised (at least not deliberately), and you’ll have your answer.
The issue isn’t Wal-Mart, or any other business. That’s just a red herring. The issue is purely choice: there’s no such thing as half-choice, only whether you can do what you want without harming others. I’m still wondering why you bunch want to restrict people’s freedom to shop where they’d like, when nobody is forced to work or shop there.
And I responded with:
Shalom Perry,
The restricting people’s freedom to shop meme is a straw man. Everybody should absolutely have the right to patronize the retailers they wish to. But you know that.
And thanks for answering my question.
B’shalom,
Jeff Hess
The next message from Perry can shortly thereafter:
No, it’s far from a straw man: it’s precisely what you’re doing. You claim that “Everybody should absolutely have the right to patronize the retailers they wish to.” (I’ll hold you to that, be warned.) But you belie that statement by advocating certain government policies that interfere with and hinder that freedom. How are you not infringing on people’s freedom to shop where they want? Instead, they can shop where you will let them.
It’s your turn to answer my question: if people are in fact worth more than what their employers are willing to pay, then why don’t they find a job with someone else who’s willing to pay that? But I don’t really expect you to understand the basis of private property and voluntary commerce.
And you can stop using “shalom” with me. It’s insulting when the first thing you should have written is an apology for your blog’s misrepresentation of and personal attack upon me.
Up to this point I considered this correspondence to be a private matter and treated it as such. But since it appeared that Peter was interested in engaging in a dialogue, I sent this reply:
Shalom Perry,
Since it seems we do have a dialogue here, I’ll consider your first reply a matter of private communication. Any further responses will be on the record.
Which government policies are you referring to? I don’t believe that I’ve ever read or heard about any law prohibiting any person in the United States from entering, shopping at and purchasing from any retailer not engaging in a proscribed business.
As to whether or not people are worth more than an employer is willing to pay, I have to say that I grew up in a part of the country –- the Ohio River Valley –- were I knew men and women who experienced first hand the battles against corporations like Peabody Coal and others over just this point.
If two entities sit down in good faith and negotiate a fair exchange of financial capital for human capital, then we have an example of people being paid what they’re worth. If, on the other hand, one entity holds several advantages as regards factors such as choice, geography and ease of transport, no such fair exchange is possible. I’ll give you that neither side is without it’s abuses, but that cannot negate the basic rule of what constitutes an equitable negotiation.
In what way have I misrepresented you? Am I wrong in my understanding that you receive regular or periodic financial consideration (or its equivalent) from Wal Mart?
Finally, I choose my salutation and closing based on a matter of ethnicity. The only other closing that I use is Love, and that I reserve for my family and closest friends. So I’m afraid I must remain with:
B’shalom,
Jeff Hess
The above message was sent at 1422 EDT. Perry went with his own rules at 1355 EDT:
Normally I post e-mail messages only with the other party’s permission, but considering it’s one of the “troila” at a blog which misrepresented and personally attacked me…screw them.
Posted by Perry Eidelbus at 1:55 PM
In the interest of not forcing other posts off the front page, I’m continuing my dialogue with Perry on the inside. Please keep reading at: The Rest Of the Story… (Continued).
As a lot of this seems to come down to what I wrote in this post, let me offer my thoughts when I wrote it. [By the way, if you click the link you'll notice I never mentioned Perry by name.]
My problem was (and is) not with the cutting and pasting, but with the desire of these conservative freinds of Wal-Mart to only print the good news that Wal-Mart tells them. The exact words don’t matter – it’s the ideas they’re parroting (or perhaps I should say puppeting). Whether they’re copying from Marshall Manson of Edelman’s e-mails or not, they’re still doing his bidding, spreading only the good news about Wal-Mart and never the bad. When Perry is willing to discuss subjects like employee wage caps or the fact that Working Families for Wal-Mart is funded by Wal-Mart rather than by actual working families, then I’ll take him off my sock puppet list.
He doesn’t have to agree with me about these stories for me to respect him. He just has to stop cheerleading and start confronting the actual ideas of the people who disagree with him rather than calling them all socialists and walking away.
hi perry,
as a jewish woman who is also a friend of jeff’s, please stop attacking him for the use of the word shalom. it means hello and goodbye, as well as peace, and i have never known jeff to be insincere in his graciousness (and he sure is being gracious with you). i am also unsure if you are somehow offended as a jew, or if maybe you are just uncomfortable with his embracing his own culture…. as i certainly have felt uncomfortable at times when christians say god bless to me, or muslims akbar allah
Why is Mr. Eidelbus so angry? It appears to me that he is one of those that believe that if you work hard and live a good life, success will come to you. It just isn’t the real world.
Perry needs a good therapist, or at least some anger management classes. Wow.
[...] THE REST OF THE STORY… I’m a firm believer that reasonable people can engage in reasonable discussions. That view might seen polyanish to some, but it’s too easy to assume anyone who disagrees with you is an idiot. And it isnt’ very helpful in the long run. [...]